Objection 4 of 21
The couplet is not an Article of Faith. They already worship a God who was a man — Jesus.
You teach that God the Father was once a man who progressed to godhood — ‘as man is, God once was.’ That’s blasphemy.
What they say
“As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be.”
They quote · Numbers 23:19
“God is not a man, that he should lie.”
They quote · John 4:24
“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
They say
Numbers 23:19 — God is not a man.
The verse means God does not lie. It is not saying God cannot have a body. Hosea 11:9 uses the same contrast. They already teach that Jesus is God and that Jesus was a man — so “God cannot be a man” is not a rule they actually keep.
Numbers 23:19
KJV · God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent.
NRSVUE · God is not a human being, that he should lie, or a mortal, that he should change his mind.
They say
God cannot have a body. That’s blasphemy.
They already believe Jesus is God, and they already believe Jesus had a body. John 1:14: the Word became flesh. Luke 24:39: flesh and bones. They take the sacrament of that body. Then they say the Father cannot have a body. John 5:19: the Son does what He sees the Father do.
John 1:14
KJV · And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us.
NRSVUE · And the Word became flesh and lived among us.
Luke 24:39
KJV · A spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
NRSVUE · A ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.
They say
John 4:24 — God is a Spirit. God cannot have a body.
John 4:24 is about how we worship, not whether the Father has a body. Jesus is talking to the Samaritan woman about Gerizim versus Jerusalem. He says true worship is in spirit and in truth — not tied to a mountain. If “God is a Spirit” means “God cannot have a body,” then the risen Jesus cannot be God. Luke 24:39: a spirit does not have flesh and bones, and He did. They already believe He is God.
John 4:21–24
KJV · The hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. … God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
NRSVUE · The hour is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. … God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.
Luke 24:39
KJV · A spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
NRSVUE · A ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.
They say
Even your book says God is from everlasting.
Correct. Moroni 7:22: God is from everlasting to everlasting. The Book of Mormon does not narrate a mortal biography of the Father. We do not need one in the first conversation. The couplet is not in the Book of Mormon.
Moroni 7:22
For behold, God knowing all things, being from everlasting to everlasting, behold, he sent angels to minister unto the children of men.
They say
As man is, God once was — that’s your doctrine.
That couplet is Lorenzo Snow, not an Article of Faith, not a baptismal interview. The Church’s essay Becoming Like God is the public teaching: we may become like the Father through Christ. A required biography of the Father is not doctrine. King Follett is a funeral sermon. Speculation is allowed. A new god to worship is not.
Doctrine and Covenants 130:22
The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also.
They say
You hide this. It’s the secret heart of Mormonism.
The opposite: the essay is on the Church’s website. FAIR is explicit that infinite regression is not a recommend question. If they want the couplet, give them the essay. If they want the First Vision, give them the grove. Do not pick a winner the Church has not picked.
Lesson 1 — Godhead
“God is our Heavenly Father. We are His children. He has a body of flesh and bones.”
Teach the Father who appeared in the grove. Do not teach the couplet unless they bring it. If they do: ‘That’s a later couplet, not what we baptize on. We worship the Father of Jesus. Would you read John 1:14 with me?’
Open Preach My GospelFaithful voices only. Most of these are independent — not official Church productions unless marked as such.
