Did he use the Urim and Thummim? Did he use a seer stone? Both? Do any of those options disqualify Joseph as a prophet — or the Book of Mormon as scripture?
The Bible answers
King James Version
And thou shalt put in the breastplate of judgment the Urim and the Thummim; and they shall be upon Aaron’s heart, when he goeth in before the Lord.
NRSVUE
In the breastpiece of judgment you shall put the Urim and the Thummim, and they shall be on Aaron’s heart when he goes in before the Lord.
Our explanation
Urim and Thummim in the priest’s breastplate. Holy stones are already in their Bible.
King James Version
To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written.
NRSVUE
To everyone who conquers I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give a white stone, and on the white stone is written a new name.
Our explanation
A white stone with a new name. John is not embarrassed by a seer stone.
The Book of Mormon answers
Mosiah 8:13
I can assuredly tell thee, O king, of a man that can translate the records; for he has wherewith that he can look, and translate all records that are of ancient date; and it is a gift from God. And the things are called interpreters.
Our explanation
A seer translates by interpreters. It is a gift from God — not a parlor trick.
Mosiah 28:13–14
And now he translated them by the means of those two stones which were fastened into the two rims of a bow. Now these things were prepared from the beginning, and were handed down from generation to generation, for the purpose of interpreting languages.
Our explanation
Two stones fastened in the rims of a bow, prepared to interpret languages. That is the Book of Mormon’s Urim and Thummim.
Ether 3:23–24
And behold, these two stones will I give unto thee, and ye shall seal them up also with the things which ye shall write. For behold, the language which ye shall write I have confounded; wherefore I will cause in my own due time that these stones shall magnify to the eyes of men these things which ye shall write.
Our explanation
The Lord gives two stones and seals them with the record. Interpreters are in the book itself.
Joseph Smith—History 1:35
There were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim—deposited with the plates.
Our explanation
Two stones in silver bows, with the plates. That is Joseph’s published instrument.
Doctrine and Covenants 10:1
Now, behold, I say unto you, that because you delivered up those writings which you had power given unto you to translate by the means of the Urim and Thummim… you have lost them.
Our explanation
The 116 pages: translated by the Urim and Thummim.
Dead Sea Scrolls and related extra-biblical texts that illuminate the same pattern the Restoration restores.
Community Rule (1QS); lots at Qumran; Urim in the Hebrew Bible
Israel’s priests inquired of God with Urim and Thummim. Qumran still used lots. Revelation promises a white stone. Holy objects that help a seer see are not a 1820s invention.
The fight is not ‘did God ever use a stone.’ He did. The fight is which instrument Joseph used, and whether later interviews outrun Joseph and Oliver.
Joseph Smith Foundation
Joseph Smith Foundation
Start with the two men who actually translated and wrote the book. Joseph never published ‘I put a rock in a hat.’ He said, in the Wentworth Letter (1842) and in Joseph Smith—History, that the record came through the Urim and Thummim: two transparent stones in a bow, fastened to a breastplate, deposited with the plates. Oliver Cowdery wrote almost the entire Book of Mormon as scribe. In 1834, while the events were still close, he said Joseph translated ‘with the Urim and Thummim, or, as the Nephites would have said, Interpreters.’ When Oliver came back to the Church he said it again: he handled the plates and the holy interpreters. D&C 10 calls the 116 pages a translation by the Urim and Thummim. D&C 9 is study, ask, and a burning confirmation — not a magic dictation machine. The Foundation’s point: the first-hand, in-church, contemporary witnesses name the interpreters. The hat-and-stone picture is mostly later interviews from people who did not look through the instrument.
Through the medium of the Urim and Thummim I translated the record by the gift and power of God. — Joseph Smith, Wentworth Letter, 1842
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Gospel Topics Essays
The Church’s 2013 essay is the other public reading. It says eyewitnesses describe Joseph placing either the interpreters or a seer stone in a hat to shut out light, then reading English words. That reconstruction leans on later statements. Emma Smith, a scribe for the early pages, told her son Joseph Smith III in 1879 — fifty years later, months before she died — that Joseph sat with his face in a hat, stone inside, dictating with nothing between them. David Whitmer, who hosted translation in Fayette but was not the scribe of the book, gave many interviews from 1869–1888 describing a chocolate-colored stone in a hat; he had left the Church in 1838 and believed Joseph a fallen prophet. Martin Harris, scribe of the lost 116 pages, is quoted in 1859 (Tiffany’s Monthly) saying Joseph used a seer stone as well as the Urim and Thummim, ‘for convenience.’ None of those three men looked through the instrument. They described what they thought they saw. The essay does not claim a revelation settled the props. It reports the later memory. Members are not required to pretend Joseph and Oliver said ‘hat.’ They are also not required to pretend Emma, Martin, and David never spoke.
Joseph Smith and his scribes wrote as the words were given. The book is the miracle. The essay does not make a seer stone a saving ordinance.
Mormonr / FAIR Latter-day Saints
Mormonr / FAIR
Mormonr lays the documents out: early sources say spectacles, interpreters, Urim and Thummim, gift and power of God. Hat and stone cluster in later retellings. FAIR holds both: Joseph had a seer stone in his youth; the Church still has a brown stone; the essay published it. Honest conclusion: the Church has not canonized a diagram of the table. Competing reconstructions are allowed. What is not allowed is pretending we have video. We have Joseph and Oliver on one side of the table, and later memory on the other. Read both. Do not let a critic tell you only the hat counts, and do not let anyone tell you the later scribes left no statement.
Historical accounts do not clearly establish which method was used when, or how often.
Bible + Restoration scripture
Scripture (the ‘so what’)
Suppose the later interviews are right and Joseph used a seer stone in a hat for some or all of the dictation. That still does not make the Book of Mormon magic, folk occultism, or a different gospel. It is okay to believe either method. Both are biblical. Aaron carried Urim and Thummim in a breastplate. Israel inquired by lots. Moses held a rod. A bronze serpent healed. Jesus put clay on a blind man’s eyes. The apostles cast lots for Matthias. Revelation 2:17 promises a white stone. D&C 130 says a white stone becomes a Urim and Thummim. The majority of first-hand evidence still points to the interpreters. If he used a stone anyway, that should not shake anyone’s faith. The scandal is that the object is homely. Burning bushes are homely too. The test of the book is the book — witnesses, Christ, and the fruits — not whether the instrument looked like a Protestant pulpit.
To him that overcometh will I give … a white stone. — Revelation 2:17
Faithful voices only. Most of these are independent — not official Church productions unless marked as such.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
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