Baptism & “what about the thief on the cross?”

They say

Luke 23:43 — saved without baptism, so baptism is optional.

Luke never says he was unbaptized. That is their insert. Mark 1:5: all Judea and Jerusalem were baptized of John. He called Jesus Lord and knew He had a kingdom. Scriptural Mormonism: who can really say he skipped it? Jesus Himself was baptized — then they crucified Him as a criminal too.

• Mark 1:4–5

  KJV · John did baptize in the wilderness… And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan.

  NRSVUE · John the baptizer appeared in the wilderness… And the people from the whole Judean countryside and all the people of Jerusalem were going out to him and were baptized by him in the River Jordan.

• Luke 7:29–30

  KJV · All the people… being baptized with the baptism of John. But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God… being not baptized of him.

  NRSVUE · All the people who heard this… having been baptized with John’s baptism. But by refusing to be baptized by him, the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God’s purpose for themselves.

• Scriptural Mormonism

  The thief on the cross

  “See also Mark 1:4-5—who can really say the thief on the cross was never baptized in the first place?”

• FAIR

  Is baptism essential for salvation?

• Gal1:8 library

  The thief on the cross

They say

John 3:5 is birth fluid, or a metaphor. Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38 are optional extras.

Jesus to Nicodemus: born of water and of the Spirit, or you cannot enter. Mark 16:16: believe and be baptized. Acts 2:38: repent and be baptized every one of you. Cornelius already had the Spirit — Peter still commanded water (Acts 10:47–48). FAIR: the New Testament and the earliest Christians treated baptism as a commandment, not a hobby. The thief is one dying man. These verses are the standing law.

• John 3:5

  KJV · Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

  NRSVUE · No one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.

• Mark 16:16

  KJV · He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

  NRSVUE · The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who does not believe will be condemned.

• Acts 2:38

  KJV · Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

  NRSVUE · Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

• Gospel Topics

  Baptism

  “Baptism by immersion in water by one having authority is the first saving ordinance of the gospel.”

• FAIR

  Is baptism essential for salvation?

• Preach My Gospel

  Lesson 3 — The Gospel of Jesus Christ

They say

I was already baptized. Authority is a Mormon obsession. Any sincere water counts.

Acts 19: Paul finds sincere disciples who had John’s baptism. He still rebaptizes them in the name of Jesus when the authority line is wrong. Hebrews 5:4: no man takes this honour unto himself. Romans 6: buried with Him by baptism — you do not bury with a damp forehead. Sincere is not the same as sent. Rebaptism is Pauline, not an insult.

• Acts 19:3–5

  KJV · Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism. … When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

  NRSVUE · Into what then were you baptized? They answered, “Into John’s baptism.” … On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

• Hebrews 5:4

  KJV · And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.

  NRSVUE · And one does not presume to take this honor but takes it only when called by God, just as Aaron was.

• Romans 6:3–4

  KJV · Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death.

  NRSVUE · Do you not know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? Therefore we were buried with him by baptism into death.

• Gospel Topics

  Priesthood

• Gal1:8 library

  Baptism: mode and authority

• Gal1:8 library

  Priesthood authority

They say

If baptism is required, why did Jesus skip it for the thief?

2 Nephi 31: the Lamb was baptized to fulfil all righteousness. He was holy, and He still went into the water. They then hung Him as a criminal. Baptized and crucified already sat on the middle cross. Alma 40: paradise is a state in the spirit world while they wait — not the Father’s throne.

• 2 Nephi 31:5–7

  If the Lamb of God, he being holy, should have need to be baptized by water, to fulfil all righteousness, O then, how much more need have we, being unholy, to be baptized.

• Alma 40:11–12

  The spirits of those who are righteous are received into a state of happiness, which is called paradise, a state of rest, a state of peace.

• Gospel Topics

  Baptism

  “Baptism by immersion in water by one having authority is the first saving ordinance of the gospel.”

• Gal1:8 library

  The thief on the cross

They say

Your Book of Mormon invents a Mormon baptism.

3 Nephi 11: the risen Lord stands among them, gives power to baptize, gives the words, and commands immersion. That is Matthew 28 and Acts 2 in another land. Moroni 8: little children are alive in Christ — we bless them and baptize when they can repent. The Restoration did not invent the ordinance. It restored the way He showed it.

• 3 Nephi 11:21–26

  I give unto you power that ye shall baptize this people… On this wise shall ye baptize them… Having authority given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you… And then shall ye immerse them in the water.

• Moroni 8:8, 10–12

  Little children are whole, for they are not capable of committing sin… teach parents that they must repent and be baptized… this thing shall ye teach — repentance and baptism unto those who are accountable and capable of committing sin.

• Gospel Topics

  Baptism

  “Baptism by immersion in water by one having authority is the first saving ordinance of the gospel.”

• Gal1:8 library

  Infant baptism

• Gal1:8 library

  Baptism: mode and authority

They say

Jesus said ‘today in paradise.’ That’s heaven. Baptism cancelled.

John 20:17: after Easter He still told Mary He had not ascended to the Father. 1 Peter 3:19: He preached to the spirits in prison. D&C 138: He organized that preaching. Guide to the Scriptures: Luke 23:43 means the world of spirits. Paradise that Friday is not a same-day trip to the throne.

• John 20:17

  KJV · Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father.

  NRSVUE · Do not hold on to me, because I have not yet ascended to the Father.

• 1 Peter 3:18–19

  KJV · Being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison.

  NRSVUE · He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which also he went and made a proclamation to the spirits in prison.

• Doctrine and Covenants 138:29–30

  The Lord went not in person among the wicked… from among the righteous, he organized his forces and appointed messengers… to go forth and carry the light of the gospel to them that were in darkness.

• Guide to the Scriptures

  Paradise

  “Paradise is also used in the scriptures to mean the world of spirits (Luke 23:43).”

• Gospel Topics

  Spirit World

• Preach My Gospel

  Lesson 2 — Plan of Salvation

They say

Even if baptism matters, Joseph Smith had no right to restart it. My pastor’s baptism is enough.

May 15, 1829: John the Baptist restored the priesthood to baptize (D&C 13). D&C 20: the manner — go down into the water, immerse, come up. That is Matthew 3 and Romans 6 restored, not invented. If they still needed the ordinance after death, that is why we baptize for the dead. Invite: ‘We are not erasing your love for Jesus. We are asking you to enter the covenant the way He restored it.’

• Doctrine and Covenants 13:1

  Upon you my fellow servants, in the name of Messiah, I confer the Priesthood of Aaron, which holds the keys of the ministering of angels, and of the gospel of repentance, and of baptism by immersion for the remission of sins.

• Doctrine and Covenants 20:72–74

  Baptism is to be administered in the following manner unto all those who repent… And then shall he immerse him or her in the water, and come forth again out of the water.

• Preach My Gospel

  Lesson 1 — The Restoration

• Preach My Gospel

  Lesson 3 — The Gospel of Jesus Christ

• Gospel Topics

  Priesthood

• Gospel Topics

  Baptism

  “Baptism by immersion in water by one having authority is the first saving ordinance of the gospel.”

They say

Even if the thief was baptized, this still proves deathbed faith is enough and ordinances are extra.

Christ can forgive a dying man. That is not a repeal of John 3:5 for people who can still walk to the water. Preach My Gospel Lesson 3: baptism is the first covenant. Gospel Topics: Baptism. If he still needed the ordinance, that is why we baptize for the dead.

• Gospel Topics

  Baptism

  “Baptism by immersion in water by one having authority is the first saving ordinance of the gospel.”

• FAIR

  Is baptism essential for salvation?

• Preach My Gospel

  Lesson 3 — The Gospel of Jesus Christ

• Gal1:8 library

  Baptism for the dead

They say

So you’re telling my investigator their Christian baptism was fake.

No. Acts 19 rebaptized people who already loved God. We are copying Paul. Do not win a fight about their pastor. Teach the restoration of priesthood, then invite. If they fire the thief, answer the thief. If they fire ‘I already did this,’ open Acts 19. Then get back to Jesus in the water.

• Preach My Gospel

  Lesson 3 — The Gospel of Jesus Christ

• Gospel Topics

  Priesthood

• Gal1:8 library

  Only true church